Round 13 2017/18 – Thanksgiving Week

Everyone got their picks in and here they are:

Thanks For Randomness

This Weeks Quotes

Some contributions this week some seem to be an excuse for not fulfilling the promise of last year’s success with a recent mediocre run:

JE – “I have no idea about results this season. I do know that i got a good result by blagging me DM tickets! X”

Here’s one that they didn’t play – time to get the season back in gear:

I also get the banter of two arch-nemesis who should really directly antagonize each other:

ME – “I have deliberately predicted incorrect results this week to give AM a better chance! … From your team pictures it looks like Man Utd could poop over the Gulls! ”

AM- “All I’ve done in the past few weeks is take my foot off the gas just to wait for old ME to catch up! ”  “PS – ‘Old Toilet’ my arse!!”

Well head-to-head score is as follows (to ruin the suspense):

Looks Who’s Ahead!

Seems that one is winning by points but not head-to-head.  I’m sure I could call it a tie but the rules are that ME is winning!

The Game Summaries

Burnley V Arsenal
Arsenal have 18 of their 22 points at home and they are playing at Turf Moor where Burnley are actually capable of getting results this year.   Should be a close game and end with honors shared.  I want to make this 1-1 but I put 2-2 and it’s too late to change it and upload it again.  I therefore declare that the last few minutes will end in a chaotic pair of offsetting goals in time added on.

Crystal Palace V Stoke City
I think that Palace will go down but I really think that Mark Hughes should be fired so that settles that.  Palace for the win with Benteke scoring because I took him out of my fantasy team and replaced him with a goat.  Or not.

Huddersfield Town V Manchester City
Huddersfield will try and keep this a goalless affair.  Not going to happen.

Liverpool V Chelsea
So everyone thinks that Liverpool are going to lose because they let in three goals against Sevilla in the week.  Do I need to point out that they didn’t lose? This is Anfield and Mane Salah will score a hattrick to put them up 3-0.  Chelsea will score, of course.  This is my pick and is part of what I call fantasy football.  Reality football is that Jordan Henderson is playing and he’s rubbish so Chelsea probably won’t lose.

Was Merse  Drinking Again Last Year?

Manchester United V Brighton & Hove Albion 
Fellaini will score when the Red Devils revert to the long-ball and end up 1-0.  That’s what my brain said but then I realized that they’ve scored 4 goals every time they play at Old Toilet.  Brighton won’t score.  That makes 4-0 the going prediction.  So three of us will either be disappointed or happy with the number of goals.

Newcastle United V Watford
Watford are brilliant and have the best manager in the world – or so the press would have you think.  They’re average just like their opposition so I’m going to go for the old stand-by of 2-2 for the Moosemen though the players may deliberately lose to keep Silva around.

Southampton V Everton
Everton have an interim scape-goat in Unsworth and I don’t think he can be too excited at the prospect of continuing his managerial status at Everton as it’s definitely destroying his resume.  Another loss as Southampton manage to eek a goal out of something.  This deserves a 0-0.

Swansea City V Bournemouth
The Cherries are better than Swansea.  The picks seem to bear this out overall. End of discussion.

Tottenham Hotspur V West Bromwich Albion
West Brom would get a new manager bump but they have a caretaker manager in Gary Megson and are actually looking to take Alan Pardew.  I think I would have kept the old-boy Tony Pulis.  Mr P let it be known he’s in charge by basically telling Danny Rose to sit down and shut up… though he’s thinking of moving to Real Madrid if Zidane gets the boot.  Interestingly, I just read Four-Four-Two that called Zidane the best manager in the world.  Funny ole game that Spurs will win.

West Ham United V Leicester City
West Ham are playing at home and will be looking to play better than they did last week against Watford (I missed most of the game after Andy “Elbows” Carroll tried to knock-out half the opposition).  David Moyes is their manager so it’s hard to see how they will ever play better.  Close game which Leicester should win but probably won’t.

Signing off.   Preparing my analysis for next week… you can already get your picks in.  Hopefully this will give me more time to write something amusing or that makes sense.


Round 07 2017/18 – Results “Black Jack”

This was a high scoring week (for some of us). Things were looking close on Saturday but a crazy set of Sunday results moved BE to the top of the pack.
There was a fairly big score this week….let’s see if you can guess what it was without looking.

A Good Hand

Maybe that wasn’t enough of a clue.  Maybe this is….

A Good Player

Twenty one points!  This is the highest score of the year and a high water mark for everyone to shoot for.  It is a lot but I should still point out that this is still four points short of the ridiculous total put up by KMFE last year that stands as the record since we started making picks 3 years or so ago.

Weekly Leaders

As mentioned, last year 25 points put KMFE to the top of the overall charts – a position from which she slowly fell.  This year, 21 points has put BE firmly at the top of the charts but we’ve been here before. It is from the top last year at the half-way point of the season that she started the magnificent slide from first to last suffering the kind of second half collapse we would expect from Watford. So don’t give up hope if you find yourself last Livi.  My advice:  Stop picking against Liverpool!

Aggregate Scores

Looks to me like the new members [LS, AB] are struggling while the experienced players [BE,JCE,ME,JE] are hanging out at the top.  LJ is an experienced player who continues to lose and live by his mantra “I think knowing football is actually a hindrance”.

Next week a quick summary of who these initialisms actually are!

Entry Form for Week 8

Round 05 2017/18 – Premier League Picks

OIt’s only week five and already we’ve hit on what I will call the stupid schedule.. games played on a seemingly random schedule. Speaking of random, here are this weeks mix of numbers.

Random Number Generator

I don’t have a theme this week and I’m a but tired after the stressful couple of weeks so just a bog-standard summary this week.

Bournemouth vs Brighton & Hove Albion
This game is an easy pick. It’s a 2-1 pick all day long every day – especially every day after the game has been played.  A number of us already got a jump on the leader board though with the popular pick.

Chelsea vs Arsenal
Almost a unanimous decision provided here.  It’s hard to know if that’s respect for Chelsea or disrespect for the flat track bully that is Arsenal.  I’m tempted to pick an upset here as one of the key factors cited in Chelsea’s advantage is that Gary Cahill is fit.  Well,he’s in the Top 5 overrated players in English football – slow, not poised, and looks uncomfortable on the ball.

More Comfortable on the Ball than Cahill

Will be a strange atmosphere due to the increased police presence after the Parsons Green tube.

Crystal Palace vs Southampton
Woy’s Boys are back.  If he can accomplish with Palace what he did with England, we should expect Palace to finish in the top half of the table knowing they will fail to live up to their potential. I dub their new manager  “Welegation Woy”.

Huddersfield Town vs Leicester City
It’s hard to know what Leicester is this year – almost beat Arsenal (doesn’t prove much), beat Brighton (doesn’t prove they’re good) and lost to United and Chelsea (doesn’t prove they’re bad).  I suppose an away win at Huddersfield who are seemingly tough to break down might go some way to convince us they deserve more their current position.  The current news is whether Silva is a Leicester player or not having filed the final paperwork 14 seconds late – Sporting Lisbon want their cash either way.  You could argue with FIFA over what 14 seconds could mean but quite a lot can happen in that amount of time:

Liverpool vs Burnley
It’s hard to know what Liverpool is this year – almost beat Watford (doesn’t prove much), beat Arsenal and Cwystal Palace (doesn’t prove they’re good) and lost to Citeh and Chelsea (doesn’t prove they’re bad).  I read that Pre-Karius will be in goal because nothing is better behind a weak defense than a weak goalkeeper.  Klopp going for the gung-ho style of football.

Manchester United vs Everton
First time I’ve ever rooted for Rooney to score at the Old Toilet.  Will be the first time I’m disappointed that he hasn’t.

Newcastle United vs Stoke City
Newcastle fans always think they’re bigger than they are and a couple of wins later they actually believe they are.  Wrong on both counts.

Tottenham Hotspur vs Swansea City
Spuds “will hope Hurri-Kane can blast in another couple of goals”  [that joke from BE].  Swansea sounded like a Spuds midfielder last week (Dier) so Spurs should manage another win at “home”.

Watford vs Manchester City
Unanimous this one. Watford lose. Citeh win.  No arguments here.

West Bromwich Albion vs West Ham United
The boing-boings disappointed last week and West Ham grabbed a win.  Anything might happen but it will be so much more fun if Bilic gets fired.

Round 04 2017/2018 – Premier League Results

How quickly things can change.  In less time than it takes a hurricane to move from East Florida to West Florida a winner can turn to a loser and a loser can turn to a winner.

Winners and Losers

Our double winner, Mr AM, dropped faster than the air pressure in a hurricane and LS went higher than flood waters in a bad storm.

This week the most controversial incident was one that resulted in Liverpool getting thrashed and rekindling of that age-old debate at whether accidental decapitation should be a red card or not.

Mane Not Fouling Anyone

I will post an aggregate table next week.  And finally, congrats to BE for not coming last!

Round 01 2017/2018 – Premier League Picks

It’s Round 1 and most of the picks are in…as usual we have JE being casually late and operating on his own Fergie/Mourinho time.   Or, Silva time.

Time I Joined A Proper Club

We have a few new people join this time round to see if they can match up to the current champion and Beebster’s biggest fan,  my brother, JE.

*I may go into more detail on who is who later but I will point out three supercomputer algorithms that are playing (SC1,SC2, SC3).  The winner last year was a supercomputer!  The algorithms are proprietary and have not yet yielded financial returns (it’s illegal to wire money for betting purposes in the USA).

The opening few weeks will be a case of calibrating team expectations.  Will West Ham finally adjust to playing in a giant cavern?   How will the Spuds do playing all there games away from home at the large Wembley.  They will no doubt miss the intimate White Hart Lane and suffer from the less than intimate size of the new field (tiring on the old legs).   From the second smallest to largest field in a year is going to have an impact – not to mention their 1-4 record there last year.

The bigger problem is just keeping track of transfers and what those transfers mean.   The big names are obvious – Lukaku will be expected to deliver 25 goals (and fail), Cleverly will be expected to deliver mediocre performances (and succeed).  More than that there is the stupidity of the open transfer window – will Coutinho actually leave.

Watford bought a Burnley substitute for18m GBP which took spending to over $1 B GBP (yes, that is a B).   Let’s put that in perspective.


If you look at it from the point of view of fans:

Everyone else has Loadsamoney

All the picks so far:

Lots of Guesses

Arsenal V Leicester City

Going to be a good start to the league, lots of goals,lots of excitement.  This prediction lark is a lot easier after the fact.

Brighton & Hove Albion V Manchester City

Soufyan Ahannach has come in and make a huge difference for the Seagulls and they are looking to shatter their transfer record with a 13.5 million signing which is about the amount Yaya wants Citeh to spend on his agent’s birthday cake.   It’s not really fair is it.

Chelsea V Burnley

Most people see Chelsea walking this game but Burnley will not, I repeat, will not be as horrible away from home as they were last year.  Conte didn’t get the star power additions he wanted and Hazard is hard.  This is a tougher position than they faced all of last year.. just putting in a back 3 and playing from the front was easy.  They’ll still win.

Crystal Palace V Huddersfield Town

Palace from the Sowf at home against the newly promoted team from the the North.  I think Palace will surprise a little this year.  They didn’t get relegated with Big Sam so imagine how well they will do with a right proper boss who’s going to introduce “total” football.

Everton V Stoke City

My pick for first manager to go not called Silva is Mr Hughes.  The first game will make that one step closer to happening.   I think Rooney will be a good player in the slot for Everton.

Manchester United V West Ham United

With Lukaku, Mourinho will be hoping last year’s 0-0 games will be this year’s 1-0 games.   That’s about how ambitious the new Man Utd truly is…

1-0 !

Newcastle United V Tottenham Hotspur

Another week before we get to see Spuds at Wemberley.   Already, this is a must win game for the Le Coq on a beachball team.

Southampton V Swansea City

Two teams that no one really cares about.  Moving on.

Watford V Liverpool

The game of the Year.  Klopp for the Chop (he’s my dark horse pick for managers to get the Emre Can) vs Silva.  I’d like to say the meese have a chance and they do.   Liverpool should be focusing on the Hoff in next week’s Champions League playoff.

Don’t Hassell the Hoff

West Bromwich Albion V Bournemouth

I have Josh King and Junior Stanislas on my fantasy team so I must like the Cherries;however, I just have a hard time betting against the Old Man Tony Pullis at home.


Another Season of Useless Predictions

It is a new season and once again it starts with me not knowing who plays where which is a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to trying to predict things. More importantly, I don’t know who’s going to be moving while the window is open – Benteke to West Ham, Sanchez to everywhere, and every team needing “4 or 5 players” except Manchester United who need 11 players and Manchester City who bought everything they needed. As a Hornets fan I do know change so I did take the time in the Summer to see who our new manager is – he apparently managed Hull last year and thinks that a Burnley substitute is worth $18m.

Despite knowing that my pre-season picks last year were a disaster, I am once again going to make my predictions.

So here we go again.

Young Player of the Year
Last year’s pick Raheem Sterling – seriously?
Ruben Loftus-Cheek would be a good choice if he didn’t play for Palace. You’re not going to keep them in the top 10 and so you won’t get your recognition.  My choice this year will be Jesus though my fear is that he’ll start slow and will be gone by Christmas… the Benjamin Button Son of God.

My pick is thus:

1st, Jesus
2nd, Ruben Loftus-Cheek
3rd, Raheem Sterling (fool me thrice, why don’t you – is he still young?)

Where’s Dele Ali? He’s at Spurs.

Goalkeeper of the Year

Everton spend a lot on a keeper so either he’s the man or a bust.

1st, Jordan Pickford
2nd, David DeGea

Not Jordan Pickford

Top Goalscorer

Spurs are playing at Wembley so their tally will go down, Man City will score in bunches but share them across all the forwards…then there’s Lukaku.  I really want him to fail but I’m sure he’ll be top of the charts.  Last year I picked Aguero, a rather obvious and not terrible, choice.

2nd, Lacazette
3rd, Morata

Where’s Harry Kane?  He’s at Spurs with Dele.

Best Signings

I don’t know much about many of the players signed but there was some serious money splashed about.  Manchester City brought in a bus load of defenders but Watford managed to spend $8m on Cleverly… which is, not so cleverly.

Worst signing could be Liverpool – that would be Coutinho signing for Barca.

First Firing

First manager to be fired could be Silva because Watford have a stinker of a schedule to start (Liverpool) and could easily be bottom from the get go.  My odds on favorite, however, is Mark “most overrated manager” Hughes who will try and lead Stoke to a no-score draw record.

It’s going to be Silva.

And finally…..The Table

Here’s my end of year table.

Totally Off Base End of Year Table

At Christmas?

Technically, Only Half Crazy Table

Round 36 2016/2017 – Premier League Picks (Round 35 Results)

This week’s post comes after West Ham took on their rivals and ended their season.  Chelsea are too far ahead and the last few games are about fighting to stay out of the bottom three.   This is much like our leaderboard with JE too far ahead to catch and the rest of us playing for the right not to be last (and it’s VERY close at the bottom – but ME and BE have been copying each other).  The end of season summary will prove to be quite interesting.

Last week I won again!  But unfortunately it was a very low scoring week and no gap was really closed.  The winner this week had a meager 8 points!  The average points for all is generally above 9!

The table below includes LJ but he didn’t make any picks that I added in (he did make 4) but it’s nice to see him last.

Too Little Too Late

This week we’ve got all the picks in!  Just kidding… JE is late and SuperComputer 4 has ended up in a little bit of a loop that might need debugging…. either that or turning off-and-on.


Arsenal V Man Utd

Arsenal need to win to have any hope of finishing in the top-4 (and will need the Hornets to help them out against Citeh later in the year.  The Trafford boys might have an easier route to Champions League through Europa cup and could be fielding a second-string.   If their neighbours in Manchester choke it up against Palace will Jose change and field a stronger team?  A defeat here concedes a top-four finish.

I expect Citeh to win, Arsenal to scrap out a victory against a Rooney led United with Mr Danny Welbeck punching in a winner, and finally Celta Vigo to pull off an incredible upset midweek and make Jose look like a fool.  Or that’s what LJ hopes, anyway.

Bournemouth V Stoke

It’s hard to know what to expect from teams no longer fighting for any real reason.  Finishing ahead of Watford isn’t exactly a goal at the beginning of the season but it’s about all that’s left fighting for.

Burnley V West Brom

Burnley have a great record at Turf Moore and the Boing-Boings are trying to go against the grain and finish below Watford … but at some point a run of losing by lone goals and bad luck will come to an end (and the Hornets aren’t going to get 4 points from anywhere).

Chelsea V Middlesbrough

The Champions are playing against a team that has a remote chance of staying up.  I don’t think a single bookie, single prognosticator, single fan (even in the North East), thinks that they have a chance.  It would be nice for them to pick off the Champions and for the Hornets to finish the job in a couple of weeks.  Not going to happen.  Either of them.

Hull V Sunderland

Sunderland are down and Moyes should be fired.  He put his team in the relegation zone from the first week.  Compare this to Hull who have no right to stay up and brought in a manager (on a temporary basis!) who has done nothing made them win at home.  Hull will probably win and make it impossible for Boro and force Swansea to get a result.

Leicester V Watford

Watford aren’t mathematically safe but are playing like they are.  Leicester are safe (superior g.d) but are playing like they aren’t.  Watford will enjoy sitting on 40 points for the rest of the year unless they catch Chelsea drunk after actually ensuring victory.

Liverpool V Southampton

Victory will see the Reds consolidating the most disappointing 3rd place ever.  Not sure who or why anyone was expecting much more than that – it’s been a LONG time since Liverpool ruled the league.

Man City V Crystal Palace

Palace aren’t safe but are playing like they are.  Man City are safe but playing like they shouldn’t be.  This will change and Citeh will get three points.Jose knows Watford will hand Citeh 3 points at the end of the season as well and will focus on Celta Vigo – hope they (don’t) play along.

Swansea V Everton

Swansea have to win to keep up with Hull.  They won’t.

West Ham V Tottenham

I think we all know what happened here (Spoiler Alert: I told you earlier). I always had a sneaky feeling that West Ham would screw things up for the Spuds.  Maintaining that kind of winning streak is tough.  Idiots.

Oh, in case you think I forgot the obligatory JE picture here it is:

The Late Picture is Late!

Round 35 2016/2017 – Premier League Picks

The F.A. Cup got in the way of the real competition once again… and the week was filled with make-up fixtures to confuse things.

  • I would like to provide weekly results for week 34 but it was incomplete. JE is winning.
  • I would like to provide weekly results for week 26 but that week is still incomplete.  JE is winning.
  • I would like to provide weekly results for week 26 but that week is still incomplete.  JCE is winning (JE is second).

To make it easier I created a spreadsheet with all the remaining games on it even carry overs (green lines were picks last week and can be removed):

This week’s prediction waiting for JE and LJ (who hasn’t predicted a Liverpool Watford game which is disappointing):

Or Until He Gets To It

Final PicksCrystal Palace V Burnley

Palace are winning and all credit will be given to Big Sam who rolled into town to help a team that wasn’t that bad to begin with.  He grabbed a couple of wins, a couple of brown bags filled with cash, and with just flaunts his oversize ego.  Burnley don’t win away and I’ve been burned trying to pick the turning point.  There may be no turning point and they are just on a straight line to the most miserable away record for a non-relegated team of all time.

Everton V Chelsea

Everton have scored 29 goals in 8 and Chelsea have been on a bit of a wobble.  I don’t see the Toffeemen scoring 3 or 4 goals but 2 seems reasonable.  I don’t see Chelsea losing either and I don’t think they’re capable of 3 either.  A score draw.

Man Utd V Swansea

Man Yoo will be better in the long run for big Z being out.  They can play with more pace and energy and try and score goals…we saw that effective style against Citeh in the week when they scored 3 goals in a great game…. or not.   Swansea have a defence that is magic and appears to do the impossible: be worse than Citeh’s so finally the team from near Manchester will win at home and put pressure on the Top 4

Middlesbrough V Man City

This week KMFE’s Chicago Bears were dumb.  We thus have fears that Citeh could cap the week by dropping out of the Top 4.  It will be close but they will pull it off.

Southampton V Hull

Hull are great at home and can win with even 10 men!  Away? Not so much.

Stoke V West Ham

I always think of Harry Enfield when I watch Stoke and I wasn’t sure why until I did more research… obvious!
He’s by far their best player so hope he gets Loadsamoney!

Shaqiri Enfield

Sunderland V Bournemouth

Too little too late but Sunderland will scrap a goal and grab a victory.  I know in my head this won’t happen but I have to close the gap to JE and take some risks.  Chances are Josh King scores just to hand the title to JE.

Tottenham V Arsenal

Remember these days (posted 2014)?  Nor do Arsenal.

This past week Alexis faked an injury that was almost as fake as their title challenge… but who wore it best?

Flop 3
Flop 2
Flop 1

Watford V Liverpool

Watford crushed the Pool last year 3-0 but that was a strange game with a rubbish keeper.  These days the Moosemen  lose 2-0 in a half against 10 men.  Going to be a tough day.

West Brom V Leicester

West Brom have been a top half team for a long time.  Leicester have been a bottom dweller for a while.  They are coming closer together and no-one that supports the Baggies wants that.  A little more boing in their step and they should have a good shot (falling slightly short).

Round 32 2016/2017 – Premier League Picks and Results from Rounds 31/30

Here are the previous results:

Results Week 30

Bit of an appalling week for yours truly. Looking at it positively, no one had a truly great week with only one person getting more than 50% of the results right (they didn’t win but that’s a trend for BE this year that they’ll be looking to reverse as we enter the run in).

Results Week 31

This was a better week for me losing only to KMFE who deserves a good result after weeks of disappointment picking Citeh hoping they would always win.  I originally thought I had won but I incorrectly had 2-0 for the Hornets result against the boing-boings when I know I intended 2-0. Honesty and integrity moved me from 1st to 2nd.

This week we’re waiting again for JE.

A Rule To Live By, JE

We did get picks from LJ who is in the midst of busy season at work and he assures me he has been studying up to improve his position.  He also assures me that both the Hornets and the Reds will get a thrashing this week.

Guesses – Filled In and Final Picks

The theme for this week is the defence of each team.

Bournemouth V Chelsea

The Cherries are fairly safe from the drop and Chelsea are fairly safe at the top.  I don’t see the Cherries even scoring unless David Luiz starts playing “silly buggers” again. I think that’s the language of Jack Rawlings being inherited.  RIP and not forgotten.

Ouch. Someone Breathed On Me.

Crystal Palace V Arsenal

Palace managed to shock the Arse last week (Oh, Matron!) but despite Arsenal’s defensive failings they should have enough fire-power to overcome.


Everton V Leicester

Everton are not in contention for Europe and Leicester are safe so the game is meaningless… except Lukaku wants to score to increase his value to the off-season suitors (and will) and Leicester are going to rest their players for the Champions League.  All of this is irrelevant as I am going to pick 1-1 for all Everton home games moving forward.

Image result for kasper schmeichel
Leicester’s Defence (all of it)

Man City V Hull

Citeh are out of the hunt for the league but still fighting for a Champions League spot.  Hull put four past a Middlesbrough team in the week and people will probably think that they will put one or two past a Citeh not known for protecting their goal;however, it will be a shut-out for the home team.  Aguero and Sane will be enough at the other end.

Just a Little Leaky

Middlesbrough V Burnley

Burnley still haven’t won on the road this year so it’s incredible that they’re probably safe (3 points away!).  Boro usually play conservatively for a point but the end is nigh and on a weekend when they finally try and score to save their season but will Burnley end it with a loan counter past the bus?

The Bus Is Put Into Drive

Stoke V Liverpool
Liverpool are inconsistent and should win handily but this week I heard rumors that Stoke had hired equipment to simulate the Reds defense so they should be in with a good shout.  Only one player picked against the Scousers this week – LJ… not their greatest cheerleader.

Practising Against Liverpool

Sunderland V Man Utd

Sunderland are down and Man Utd are undefeated in forever.   The Red Devils will not qualify for the CL through the league (they will finish outside the top 4) but they do have a route in via the Europa League.  I expect Jose to focus on that unimportant European trophy to save the season.
As someone once said: sometimes the best defence is a shit offence.

Image result for man united offence
Sunderland’s Defence

Tottenham V Watford

Between injuries and suspensions this may as well be Watford’s formation and Mazzari indicated as much in the week: ” we have no defence now

New Defensive Formation

Meanwhile Spurs have the best defensive record and one of the top goalkeepers.

How It Looks To Deeney

I will predict a hammering for the Hornets who are now safe.  I’ll be happy if I’m right and happy if I’m wrong.

West Brom V Southampton

West Brom got thumped last week by rampant Harry and his Hornets.  This week they take it out on Southampton and get a result.
A stout defence keeps them ahead.


Image result for west brom pregame
Defensive Organization to the Max

West Ham V Swansea

Both teams are sinking.  Could be anyone’s game.

Swansea’s Defence – Sunk